Verses 11-15: The After-Effects of Disrespecting the Guru’s Persona and Wishes
17 March 2025
The Gyalwang Karmapa opened the teaching session on the Fifty Verses on the Guru (Skt: Gurupañcāśikā) with kind greetings and announced the extension of the ongoing spring teaching season.
Then he laid out the outline established by Lord Tsongkhapa in his commentary Fulfilling All the Student’s Hopes: An Explanation of the Fifty Verses on the Guru (Tib. བླ་མ་ལྔ་བཅུ་པའི་རྣམ་བཤད་སློབ་མའི་རེ་བ་ཀུན་སྐོང།).
The manner of serving the guru has two parts:1. Abandoning disrespect, and 2. How to be respectful. The first (abandoning disrespect) has four points:
1.Abandoning criticism and denigration (which has two parts a. general and b. specific)
• Abandoning criticism in general (taught in the previous session)
• Specific explanation of abandoning criticism and denigration
2. Abandoning upsetting the guru
3. Explaining the unseen negative results
4. A summary of those
Verse 11 – Abandoning criticism and denigration: The Visible Negative Results
Those great fools who criticize
The guru’s feet will die from plagues,
Disasters, fevers, evil spirits,
Contagions, and from poisons. (11)
What is the after-effect of criticising and having one’s mind and heart intent on denigrating the guru?
Verse 11 According to the Textual Commentary on Serving the Guru (Skt. Gurvārādhana-pañjikā):
Calamities (Skt. īti) denotes being tormented by lightning strikes, floods, gales, famines, executioners and so forth. Dangers (upadrava) are dangers that arise from ghosts, hungry ghosts, monsters, demons, snakes, carnivorous beasts and so forth. Enemies (caura) means enemies with whom you have something like feuds or a blood feud. Evil spirits (graha) are the sun and the rest of the nine [Ed. This is a reference to the nine heavenly bodies that influence human life on earth according to traditional Vedic astrology: the Sun, Moon, the planets Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, and the two nodes of the Moon], or the twelve mamos such as Nandā and so forth. Because they take away sentient beings’ complexion and strength, they are graha (grasping). Fevers (jvara) are illnesses. Because they create pain in sentient beings, they are called fevers. To sum them up, there are four: wind, bile, phlegm, and the combination. To divide them further, there are many kinds. Poisons (viṣa) – though there are manifold poisons, they are generally classified as four—plant, animal, concocted and transformed. Plant poisons are such as kālakūṭa. Animal poisons are those from snakes and so forth. Concocted ones are those which are prepared. The transformed ones come from thought.
The great fools who criticise the guru’s feet will die from these – all of these will take away the life or destroy the life force of an individual who has criticised the guru.
[Note: The English verse follows Tibetan commentaries which do not exactly match the Sanskrit. The Karmapa explained the verse according to the Sanskrit Textual Commentary first, followed by the explanation of the somewhat different Tibetan version.]
Verse 11 According to Tibetan Commentaries:
Plagues (ཡམས་) refers to epidemics, like the COVID-19 was. Disasters (འཚེ་བ་) are dangers, like dangerous wild beasts. Fevers (ནད་) refers to various types of illnesses. Evil spirits (གདོན་) includes the mahoragas and other types of spirits. Contagions (རིམས་) means illnesses difficult to cure. Poisons (དུག་) like poisonous plants or those concocted by people and so forth.
Great fools who criticise the guru are great fools because they are utterly unaware of the gravity of such deeds. They will die from plagues and so forth.
Verse 12 – Abandoning criticism and denigration; The Visible and Unseen Negative Results
Tsongkhapa’s commentary Fulfilling All the Student’s Hopes outlines the categories of visible and the unseen negative results. The visible – manifested in this life – are listed in the Verse 11 and the first three lines of the Verse 12. The unseen – to be manifested in the following lifetime – are described from the last line of the Verse 12 onward.
They will be killed by tyrants, snakes,
Water, fire, ḍākinīs, bandits,
And vighna and vinayaka spirits,
And then they will go to the hells. (12)
Verse 12 According to The Sanskrit Textual Commentary on Serving the Guru:
The tyrants (rājadaṇḍa) will kill them resulting in their rebirth in the hell realm. A king is someone with the power to rule the land. Or it could be understood as great kings like Vaiśravaṇa and others or the great master of the guhyaka spirits. So, it could be understood as human kings, yakṣa kings and other beings taught in the Secret Mantra Vajrayana, the lords of the Secret Mantra. Fire (anala) means fire itself. Forces of nature like fire and water, mean themselves. Snakes (vyāla) refers to all deadly venomous animals. Ḍākinī refers to the flesh-eating and blood-drinking ḍākinīs. Water (jala) here means water itself. Bandits (taskara) are those who steal from you. Vighna spirits include Brahma, divine spirits, nāga spirits and so forth. Vinayaka spirits are false guides, like Gaṇapaṭi, and include kiṃnaras (kinnaras) and mahoragas.
Once they are killed by any of these dangerous beings or elements, the one who criticises the guru will go to the hells. Therefore, you should not criticise the guru – not even in your dreams.
Verse 12 According to Tibetan Commentaries
King (རྒྱལ་པོ་) refers to the punishment of a king, or a tyrant. These days there aren’t many kings, but it can be understood as experiencing harm which comes from violating the law, like judicial executions and so forth. Fire, water and the rest can kill you, and after an untimely death, one is reborn in the hell realm.
The heart of the matter lavishhere is that, if you criticize the Three Jewels in general, and in particular, if you disrespect and criticise the guru with whom you have a Dharma connection – it is a grave offense. Moreover, the teachings of Secret Mantra talk about the 10 kinds of beings to be destroyed, the great enemies of the teachings – and criticising the guru or the Jewels qualifies one for that list. Among the four types of activities, this is the wrathful activity. If you turn into such an enemy of the teachings, then it's very difficult to hope for any experience, realization, qualities and the like.
There are stories about this.
The Tibetan Students Who Disrespected Their Foreign Guru Phamthingpa
Once in Tibet, there was the Chal lineage. This was an important family lineage which produced a great number of translators. Among them was Chal Sonam Gyaltsen. He was a student of Phamthingpa, a famous Nepalese student of Nāropa, who was renowned for translating the Hevajra Tantra and other texts. Initially, Chal was a student of Tanak Gö Lotsawa. But Chal didn’t have great wealth to make abundant offerings to Tanak Gö Lotsawa. In the olden days, great lamas and especially great translators, did not give empowerments and so forth without lavish offerings. Since Chal could not afford this, he didn’t receive the Guhyasamāja Tantra empowerment and its teachings from Tanak Gö Lotsawa.
Pressed with such circumstances, he ventured south to Nepal to study Dharma. Upon arrival, he inquired about a learned Dharma teacher there. People said that Pal Jigme Drakpa (probably the name of Phamthingpa), a direct disciple of Nāropa, was a siddha who had received all the teachings like “filling a vase” and could be found in Pipi-harana. Chal Sonam Gyaltsen went to find him.
In order to make a formal request to be accepted as a student, a tsogkhor (Skt. gaṇacakra), a ritual feast, had to be prepared. Chal took the lead among the other potential adepts, gathered the necessary materials and made the arrangements. During the feast, some of his Dharma brothers, intoxicated with chang (barley beer), sang a derogatory song about the guru because he had a dark complexion, was lower caste, and didn’t know Tibetan.
"This guru, they call him Newari Phamthing, when unseen, the sound is great. When seen and approached, he looks like an old cow covered with silk,” they sang in Tibetan, feeling confident that the guru would not understand them.
But because of this, a breach of samaya occurred. Immediately, the torma (ritual cake) jumped into the sky. The guru, even though he did not understand Tibetan, now realized that something was wrong, and they were not suitable vessels. He scolded them and the singers fled in such shame that they couldn’t even find the door.
Chal was not among them. He did not sing. Although he didn’t find the guru to be particularly attractive, he didn’t have a problem with that. He did not lose faith and did not breach his samaya. Therefore, when he requested to be accepted as a disciple – the guru gladly accepted him.
He bestowed the empowerments of Nairātmyā, Hevajra and others and taught him all the twelve commentaries on the Hevajra Tantra. Following this, Chal’s activities flourished far and wide.
The guru’s appearance is not significant; the essence of the story is that even a slight criticism can lead to a breach of samaya – and the interdependent connections are disrupted! The Karmapa commented that this happens due to the great power of the Secret Mantra.
The Chant Master Who Disrespected the 16th Karmapa
The 16th Karmapa traveled across the world, east and west. In the countries without Buddhism he was able to invoke faith in many people that he was an actual buddha. There are famous stories of this incredible guru who appeared.
Even so, within his own monastery, in Rumtek, there were a few people who did not respect the 16th Karmapa, who even despised him or looked down on him. There were a few people who even criticized him, usually behind his back. One of them was the umdze [chant master]. He was rather learned but he had a bad streak in him. Karmapa Rigpe Dorje developed diabetes in the latter part of his life, which forced him to need the bathroom frequently. One time, during a Vajrakīlāya puja, Rigpe Dorje kindly requested the umdze to finish the session quickly, but the umdze intentionally chanted even more slowly. The Karmapa’s body was too weak to endure this and it was said that he even lost control of his bladder on the throne.
In another puja, it was said, Rigpe Dorje told the same umdze that the way he played the cymbals was not quite right. The umdze snapped back at the 16th Karmapa, “You have no more education than an old tea server.” It was direct scorn because the old tea servers had a very low standing at Rumtek. At that moment, Rigpe Dorje’s face darkened, and he said sternly: “May I never have anything to do with people like you again”.
Later, the umdze went into retreat. There, it happened that he suffered what was believed to be a mental breakdown. One day, he suddenly left the retreat center and was never seen again. No one ever found out what happened to him. His fate remained a mystery – whether he was dead or alive, no one knew.
The Attendant Who Criticised the 16th Karmapa
There was also an attendant, Luktuk. From the time he was little, people said he looked like a sheep, so they gave him the unkind nickname of Luktuk (which means Touches Sheep). For his entire life, he denigrated Rigpe Dorje, and later in life, he became insane, they say.
The After-Effects
These stories are not taught with the intent to instill fear, but we must be fully aware that our actions bring consequences. To nonchalantly disregard the possibility of dire outcomes can lead to eventual misfortune.
We ought to remember that things always turned out well for the people of faith and a pure view of the guru – even if they started with multiple difficulties. Disrespecting the guru may seem profitable in the short term and one may appear successful among people but, in the end, their life can take a bad turn.
During the Cultural Revolution there were many people who fought against the gurus, destroyed statues and so forth. But when those people died, during the “sky burial” ceremonies, the vultures refused to eat their corpses, they would not even touch them. There are many testimonies of such occurrences all over Tibet.
This is something truly worth considering.
Verse 13 – Abandoning Upsetting the Master: Unseen Negative Results
You must never rile the mind
Of the master. A fool who does
Will certainly be cooked in hell. (13)
If criticising and denigrating the guru results in such great problems, then how bad would it be to actually upset the guru’s mind? This, without a doubt, is a great offense.
Verse 13 According to Tsongkhapa’s commentary Fulfilling All the Student’s Hopes: An Explanation of the Fifty Verses on the Guru
Tsongkhapa quotes from the Secret Moon Essence Tantra (Tib. ཟླ་གསང་ཐིག་ལེ།):
You should never, at any time, disparage or upset the Vajra Master. If one happens to be so extremely foolish, they will be cooked and burnt in hell. That karma is extremely powerful, so it will certainly or definitely produce a result.
Though it is karma that is definitely experienced, the great commentary on the Eight Thousand teaches that it can be purified through the four powers. This can be known from the extensive teachings on the stages of the path.
The true Dharma has various methods and ways, the Karmapa clarified. Even if you've done something terrible but you truly regret it – there is a way. You can confess it and make a firm resolve from the bottom of your heart to not do it again. If you can truly do this, then you can purify the misdeed.
Pleasing the guru will grant you genuinely distinctive blessings from the mind of the guru. It is like receiving blessings that are different from those you receive from the buddhas and the bodhisattvas. Generally, pleasing the guru increases the potential for receiving the guru’s compassion and blessings, more than anything else, so the Eighth Karmapa Mikyö Dorje wrote in his prayer “By these, my roots of virtue of the three times…”:
No matter what I do, whether virtuous, evil, or neutral, may I only please him. May I never do anything that displeases him even for an instant.
In order to please the guru and not displease them, one must make aspirations. The reason is that, if the guru is pleased, you are creating the basis for receiving their compassion and blessings. Conversely, if the guru is displeased or upset, there is basically no hope of any blessings or siddhis.
But there is an important distinction to be made. One thing is to make the guru angry in a more temporary, trivial manner such as not having the job done properly or not moving your hands quite right. In such instances, the guru might scold you or possibly even get angry with you. But truly upsetting or disappointing the guru is another matter entirely. This happens when your intentions and aspirations are fundamentally mistaken. This latter kind of cause is what is meant here.
The Incessant and Vajra Hells
The Incessant Hell appears in both the sutras and the tantras. In the sutras, the designation “Incessant Hell” appears as the actual name of the lowest of the eight hot hells. However, the Kālacakra does not mention the Incessant Hell as one of the eight great hells. Likewise, the term “Vajra Hell” is not listed among the eight great hells in the tantras, but it does appear frequently.
Karma Trinleypa and some scholars define the term “Vajra Hell” as a general designation for the hells. But other scholars maintain that it is the eighth of the eight great hells listed in the Kālacakra and other tantras under the name “Vajra Point of the Needle Hell”.
So, are the Vajra Hell and the Incessant Hell one and the same? Explanations vary. In brief, most Kadampas and the Single Intent of the Drikung school equate them. Other scholars say that the Vajra Hell contains suffering even more intense than the suffering of the Incessant Hell, and that is how they differ.
Understanding the Heart of the True Guru as the Basis of Accomplishment
The guru in question must be understood as the one who is endowed with all the characteristics, the Gyalwang Karmapa reaffirmed. The indispensable trait among those characteristics is his great compassion. Therefore, it is impossible that such an authentic guru, endowed with great compassion, would say anything except that which would help us. They are filled with compassion and so they only think about our benefit, never harm. If we do something which contradicts the Dharma or makes the wrong interdependent conditions – this is what upsets them. The compassionate guru is not upset because their own purposes were not fulfilled but because disciples obstruct themselves from bringing benefit to the teachings.
All of the above – the service, the samaya and so forth – it all comes after the master and student have examined each other; the student has already deemed the master to be someone endowed with all the characteristics and the master has accepted the student.
The Mahayana Sutra tradition also speaks about offering one’s three doors –body, speech and mind – to the buddhas and bodhisattvas and then giving up the non-virtue of those. Giving one’s body, speech and mind to sentient beings means using those three doors for actions which benefit sentient beings. So, one says: “I must engage my three doors in a meaningful way, but I don't know how to do this myself. That is why I'm going to give my body, speech and mind to those who know how to do it, the buddhas and bodhisattvas. Then, I will perform the activity of a bodhisattva and benefit beings just as they did.” This is the meaning of offering the body, speech and mind.
The Karmapa drew a parallel to the teachings of the Secret Mantra which also speak of giving your body, speech and mind to the guru, and then accomplishing what the guru says. This can be understood in the same way. The guru who has great compassion and other characteristics will only tell you to do things which accord with the Dharma, only those things which help you accomplish your practice. If you can follow that, then this is a way to bring yourself to the level of liberation and understanding without any difficulty. This is the crux of the matter.
Honouring the 16th Karmapa’s Testament for the Fellowship of the Sangha
Following the passing of the 16th Karmapa Rigpe Dorje, many events happened within our Karma Kamtsang lineage. Before he passed, prior to his departure for Hong Kong and USA, he told everyone:
"You must get along together. You should all be like birds in a nest. You must get together, work together and be harmonious. If you do that – no one will be able to harm you."
That was his will and testament. Yet, it did not happen. Even while he was still alive, there must have been some signs of discord, but his majestic presence overwhelmed everything. Those with negative intentions really couldn't act on them much. But after his passing, people thought: "Well, now we have the opportunity." And they started acting out.
A guru who is like a buddha, like Gyalwang Rigpe Dorje, can pass into the pure land but still actually see us with the eye of compassion. We should be aware of that even though his physical body is no longer present and continue to be just as careful as when he was residing here. But forget about being careful, there was no one to stop them! People thought: "I'm going to do what I want." And it led to the conflict. The result was that the gurus and the monasteries split into two camps breaking one lineage into two factions – and we gained a bad reputation internationally.
People continue to think: "I did this for the sake of the guru. I did this for the sake of the Dharma." Thinking like this is nothing other than fooling ourselves. The fact is we couldn't have done anything worse for the guru or for the Dharma. From the time of Düsum Khyenpa to the present, the Karma Kagyu lineage stood fast for over 900 years, but we are the ones who have created a great stain on that history. No one else has done it before.
And whose fault was it? Whose mistake was it?
We can't point the finger at others – we must point the finger at ourselves. We say: "I'm not wrong. I'm right. They made all the mistakes," and point only at other people. There's a never a time when we look at our own faults.
With regard to that, the great spiritual friend Langri Thangpa said:
"No matter what profound scripture I open and read,
they all say that all the faults are my own.
All the qualities belong to sentient beings.
And because of this point, I need to give all profit and victory to others
and take all loss and defeat on myself.
I can't find anything else, any other way to understand it."
We need to look inside and see our own mistakes. What shortcomings do I have? What is my problem?
From the vantage point of all other lineages, this is the public view: “The Kamtsang lineage – they're all infighting.” The other lineages won’t really know the details of who-did-what-to-whom. What they see is that the Karma Kamtsang heart sons don't get along. Many innocent people who don’t actually know who did what have been sullied and stained by that conflict which has undeniably brought terrible difficulties to all of us.
To expand on the issue of inner conflict, the Karmapa recalled an ancient story from the Epic of Gesar.
The Internal Conflict of Shenpa and Dhenma
Once, in the Gesar kingdom of Ling, there was a general named Gyatsa Shalkar, the elder brother of King Gesar. His best friend was Minister Dhenma. During the war in the land of Hor, Gyatsa Shalkar was killed by Shenpa, the leader of Hor.
Later, Shenpa surrendered to King Gesar. Knowing that the defeated Shenpa could be beneficial to the prosperity of the land, King Gesar appointed him as one of the ministers of Ling. It was an unlikely decision, but Gesar did so because he believed that Shenpa would be useful in the future when they entered the war against Jang (today’s Lijiang).
But Minister Dhenma, who had lost his best friend, could not bear the thought and contested King Gesar’s decision ferociously. He was adamant about having his revenge: he wanted Shenpa dead. Conflict was about to break out and Gesar couldn’t do anything to stop it.
Gyatsa Shalkar, the late brother of Gesar and Dhenma’s best friend, was now a divine being who was able to see the strife from beyond. He descended from heaven and appeared in the sky in front of them. He told Dhenma: "You're not allowed to do this. You need to listen to whatever Gesar says and do as he advises. Gesar needs Shenpa. He is instrumental for an important mission in the future.”
Only then did Minister Dhenma temper his attitude. His mind was completely changed from that time on. He did whatever King Gesar said. Shenpa and Dhenma started to get along, which led to a fruitful alliance.
An Honest Attitude is the Key
If the 16th Karmapa were actually to come back and appear to us again, what would we all do?
We probably wouldn't dare to go to see him immediately. We’d think: “I can’t go and see him. He will criticise me. He will scold me. He is going to be offended by our actions. We have disappointed him.”
Very few people would dare to lift up their faces and look at him.
The Karmapa advised: “We need to look deep into our hearts. We should understand the faults and the mistakes we are making. But we don’t admit to our mistakes. Most think until the time of their deaths: "I haven't done anything wrong." However, when death comes, only then does it come up. In life, they won’t acknowledge their own mistake at all.”
The 16th Gyalwang Karmapa Rigpe Dorje is our root guru, the master of our teachings – but we have disappointed him. We have upset him. We have done a lot of things that caused this.
But even now, those people just won't give up their own selfish intentions. They continue to provoke and act mistakenly.
In the future, we all need to look the 16th Karmapa in the face, consider the honour of the Kamtsang teachings and think about what will be beneficial for this life and the next. If we want to be able to face the people of our country, it's important for us all to come together and to work harmoniously – together. Continuously placing the blame over and over back and forth will keep us in the loop with no exit.
We need to change this course and think: "Is this what the 16th Karmapa would want? Is this fulfilling his wishes?"
It's not.
When we realize that – then and only then – we can understand the situation.
Verse 14 – Explaining the Unseen Negative Results
It’s taught that those who criticize
The master will stay in the Incessant
And other terrifying hells. (14)
Verse 14 According to Lord Tsongkhapa’s commentary Fulfilling all the Students’ Hopes:
Tsongkhapa writes, extracting from the 14th chapter of the The Tantra of the Ornament of the Vajra Essence (Skt. Vajrahṛdayālaṃkāra-tantra) and the 1st chapter of the Net of Illusion Tantra (Skt. Māyājāla-tantra):
They will all go to hells refers to the hells taught in the sutras and tantras, such as Incessant Hell and others, like the Extremely Hot. Terrifying means those realms with the greatest suffering. Those who criticize the master must dwell in them for a long time, experiencing suffering.
The 5th Chapter of the root tantra of the Secret Assembly (Skt. Guhyasamāja-tantra) says:
Those beings who have done heinous acts
Or other terrible misdeeds
Can practice the supreme path,
The great ocean of the Vajrayana.
Those who criticize the guru from their heart,
May practice but will not accomplish anything.
The Brightening Lamp (Pradīpoddyotana), the commentary on Guhyasamāja-tantra, explains the above:
Those who kill their parents or an arhat, draw blood from a tathāgata, or reject the Dharma—who commit a heinous act because of which they will fall into hell immediately after dying—or, included in the word “other”, the near heinous acts, great misdeeds, or the fourteen root downfalls, if they receive the completion phase through their guru’s kindness, can accomplish buddhahood.
Though someone might have committed a heinous act; it is still possible for them to achieve the results through the Secret Mantra. However, if someone starts following a vajra master as their guru and later criticise them from the bottom of their heart – will not accomplish anything. Thus, it is taught to be a greater misdeed than rejecting the Dharma and committing heinous acts.
Verse 15 – The Summary
Therefore, you should put all your efforts
Toward never disparaging at all
The greatly intelligent vajra master,
Who keeps their virtues fully concealed. (15)
Verse 15 According to Lord Tsongkhapa’s commentary Fulfilling all the Student’s Wishes:
Because the bad results of criticizing the guru are extremely serious, you should put all your efforts with any capacity you have to never disparaging at all the vajra master with great intelligence—who has broad knowledge—and who keeps their great virtue concealed or hidden.
So, this is loving advice to students in general and, in particular, those who request the profound Dharma: be very careful never to disparage the teacher who is a hidden yogi and who hides their great knowledge and virtues. In addition, helping others to criticise their gurus is also a great impediment to achieving your own accomplishment, as explained before.
His Holiness elucidated:
In terms of human dharmas – there's no one who has been kinder to us than our parents. In terms of the divine true Dharma – there is no one who is kinder than the guru and spiritual friend. In terms of the Secret Mantra of Vajrayana – the guru is the root of samaya, the foundation of all practice and the source of all accomplishment.
It is crucial for us to be very attentive, to respect them and be wary of not following them properly. It is unsurprising that irreligious, worldly people complain about lamas and trulkus, because they don't really understand what's important. But if monastics, and in particular, those who practice the secret mantra, openly oppose the guru’s actions, this is not good.
If we didn’t have a Dharma connection with them – it might not be so bad. Although, if you think: "I don't have a Dharma connection," and then say whatever you want, that is not right either. You just don't know who's a great being and who's a bodhisattva. It's possible that even an old dog or a cow outside might be a bodhisattva. We don’t even know that.
Criticising brings about the possibility of committing a great offense. For example, businesspeople and storekeepers need to be very careful because they don't know who is rich or not. These days, rich people often dress like beggars. If they aren’t treated well, the opportunity for a big sale is lost. Similarly, we have no idea who is a great being or a bodhisattva based on their appearance alone.
Now, if you do have a Dharma connection with a guru, it is even more serious than that, you must not complain about them.
Our Human Guru
Then Karmapa reiterated: a true guru with all qualities and absolutely no faults is difficult to find. It is possible that the guru will have some faults. We can accept a few. Too many faults and big problems would mean a setback. First of all, it is for you to look at them closely. Contrast faults and qualities against each other, weigh them before entering into the samaya.
Think about it: the gurus are just like us – beings made of flesh, blood and bones who have feelings of pleasure and pain. That is the very reason why we are able to associate with them. To be with them. Eat with them. Drink with them. Have conversations with them. That's what happens, right?
It isn’t possible for us to actually meet a guru with a fully undefiled kāya or body. There are buddhas and bodhisattvas so numerous that they may even fill all of space, but we can’t see them. We can't ask them questions, talk to them. It's basically the same as if they are not there.
Those who have ordinary appearances like us have feelings of pleasure and pain. Sometimes they're happy and at times they're sad. That is beneficial for us. If you're waiting for someone whom you can never see or speak to, that's not useful. You need a guru you can see, who can tell you: "You can't do this. You shouldn't do this." Who can take you by the hand and guide you along. That is beneficial for us, isn’t it?
We need someone with an ordinary appearance like we have, who has feelings of pleasure and pain. If we insisted on having someone greater than that, we wouldn't be able to receive any Dharma teachings from them. If we can’t even see them, then how could we receive teachings from them?
If someone has an ordinary appearance and apparent faults, that is a sign for us that we can gather the accumulation of merit. It works out for us.
But if they have a lot of faults, then that's something we need to be careful about, right?
The important thing is that initially you may find someone who appears to have no faults, but once you start following them, even if you determine that they're completely flawed, you can't just criticize them. In that case, you should separate yourself from them. Get some distance. Criticising, scolding them or complaining about them will disrupt the interdependence which would allow you to find a good lama in the future.
This is something we need to think about. It will be harmful.
With this, the Gyalwang Karmapa brought the teaching session to a close.